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 Discharged early at discretion of trustee?
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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 26 September 2018 :  13:01:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have also asked if my payments reduce does this mean an extension. I also quoted advice from this and the reply was

The advice may be referring to regulations that were applied to Trust Deeds signed before 30th November 2013. Since your Trust Deed is subject to the more recent regulations, the minimum term is 48 months and potential equity so that we are restricted with the minimum dividend.

If you wish to avoid the extension due to the reduced contributions, is there a third party that could make p
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3597 Posts

Posted - 27 September 2018 :  17:09:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That doesn't make much sense to me. The minimum term is indeed 48 months, but that doesn't mean they have to extend it if your contributions reduce.

There is no "minimum dividend". It sounds like they are extending the term do that your creditors will receive the same as what was originally estimated. It's not something they have to do due to regulations, and should really be done only in cases where there has been non-compliance, rather than merely a change in circumstances.

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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 27 September 2018 :  21:24:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your advice. They basically told me what I was told here was only for trust deeds prior to 2013 so old advice really. I am going to fill out income and expen forms and take it from there. I have asked if my trustee is aware of any of my issues and was told no, until my income and expen form is completed they arenít informed.
I have had also had a £200 supervisor fee added because they offered me the year break.

Ideally Iíd like to continue and I think I could manage £200 instead of £290 but need to see what happens.
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12573 Posts

Posted - 28 September 2018 :  09:20:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny1286.

I think this comes down to their interpretation of the information you have passed on, rather than what has actually been written here. Like Kevin, I didn't understand the content of your previous post (in terms of what you were told).

I do hope you can find a suitable way forwards.

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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 28 September 2018 :  12:20:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry.

Basically Iíve had to reduce working hours due to my childs health issues.

They have told me I have a minimum payment of £289 for the entire duration of the red or an extension must be added. Basically there is no flexibility in the trust deed - if you earn more youbpay more but if circumstances outwith your control change and income decreases the £289 cannot be reduced at all.

ď y, any circumstance that would mean you would not be able to meet the initially agreed term of your Trust Deed would result in an extension. For example, the extension that has previously been implemented for 12 months was put in place to ensure the originally agreed dividend to your creditors is met.

I have discussed your situation with your Trustee, and we are more than happy to review your circumstances, so we can assess the effect this would have on your Trust Deed before any decision is made.

We are obligated to do this, as if there is a reduction of 20% or more to the originally agreed dividend, your creditors would be within their right to reject any proposed change, which may leave your Trust Deed at risk of failureĒ

Above is a quote from an advisor.
Is this information correct?

Edited by - Penny1286 on 28 September 2018 15:41:27
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12573 Posts

Posted - 01 October 2018 :  09:06:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny1286.

I don't think it's unusual to seek views from creditors when it becomes possible that they'll receive much less than they originally agreed to.

Hopefully when this review has been completed you'll have a much better idea of your situation and options.

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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3597 Posts

Posted - 01 October 2018 :  15:06:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The trustee does indeed have to consult with creditors if the dividend looks like reducing by more than 20%. However, in doing so they must recommend their proposed way forward, which can include allowing you to be discharged at the same point as originally stated, regardless of the change in circumstances. As long as their is reasonable justification that you are not to blame for the change then I doubt creditors will have any problem with that - we certainly have never had an issue and make such recommendations regularly.

By saying that you must extend the Trust Deed, your trustee is de facto refusing your discharge at the usual point. The Accountant in Bankruptcy's guidance says that a change in circumstances beyond someone's control is not an appropriate reason for refusing a person's discharge.

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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 03 October 2018 :  01:19:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you again for your advice.

I have emailed in an income and expenditure form urgently at their request and with some increased costs it looks like my payment could be £202 instead of £290, need to see what they say first obviously.


I have made 19 payments of £290 before my break and with extra month of payment added on for fees Iíve been told it can be complete by March 2022.

Iím waiting to hear back from them, I have been asked by them to find a third party to top up my payments so it may come to this if I have no other options. None of my family are really in a position for this so it would need to be a last resort but for now Iíll see what their proposal is.

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Captain Sensible
Regular Contributor

24 Posts

Posted - 03 October 2018 :  10:16:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny1286

It seems odd that your Trustee would ask you to find a third party to "top up" your payments. If you have shown reasonably that £202, rather than £290, is all you can afford, taking into account the guideline expenditure figures set by the government, your Trustee should be reducing your contribution accordingly. If this means the dividend to your creditors reduces by more than 20%, then as Kevin said, your Trustee should recommend their proposed way forward. The creditors have 21 days from the recommendation to object to the proposal if they wish. To also echo what Kevin said, a change of circumstances outwith your control is not an appropriate reason to refuse your discharge, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 03 October 2018 :  13:04:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you.

I have it in writing from them asking if a third party can contribute and when I asked how this would work with income and expenditure they told me it would count as an income.

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Captain Sensible
Regular Contributor

24 Posts

Posted - 03 October 2018 :  13:51:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny1286

If none of your family are in a position to "top up" your contribution, then I would tell your Trustee that. I'd also ask them whether or not they've proposed a recommendation to your creditors, or if they plan to do so. It may be that they've already proposed to extend your trust deed to make up for the reduction in your contribution, and they're thinking that if you can get a third party to help, then the extension won't need to be as long. Only they'll be able to tell you that though.
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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 05 October 2018 :  00:32:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are still at the income and expenditure part of the process to restart things.

They keep asking for wage slips to show maternity pay even though Iím on unpaid leave they donít seem to be understanding this no matter how many times itís been explained.
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Captain Sensible
Regular Contributor

24 Posts

Posted - 05 October 2018 :  19:04:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny

So you're still at a very early stage of this particular process. If you're on unpaid leave, but are still employed, can you not still provide them with payslips that will show that?
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Penny1286
Regular Contributor

15 Posts

Posted - 07 October 2018 :  19:49:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Donít get wage slips at all on unpaid leave. Bank statements would show that. Had a call of someone today to say my accounts in 8 months of errors and thereís no note of my 12 month break only 4. Second time this has happened and Iíve had to send them emails as proof. Doing everything in writing with this company is the best thing Iíve ever done.
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Captain Sensible
Regular Contributor

24 Posts

Posted - 17 October 2018 :  14:59:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Penny1286

Fair enough, if you can show the lower payments through your bank account. It's always better to do things in writing. Hopefully you can get the whole situation sorted out and complete your Trust Deed successfully.
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