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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12472 Posts

Posted - 26 February 2018 :  08:44:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're misunderstanding this silly.

It can change.

Read around the forum, there's loads of threads regarding changes in circumstances resulting in changes in payment.

Another way to think about this; why would reviews take place during trust deeds if payments couldn't change?

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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3549 Posts

Posted - 26 February 2018 :  12:19:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Obviously I can't see the exact wording of your agreement, silly, but maintaining your payment throughout is a different thing from maintaining the same payment throughout.

Sounds like it may not have been explained to you clearly enough, but I'd be very surprised if your paperwork does not state that your circumstances must be reviewed and that your payments can change to reflect this. It wouldn't qualify to become a Protected Trust Deed otherwise.

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silly
Frequent Contributor

33 Posts

Posted - 26 February 2018 :  22:33:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi in response to enquiries I made I was informed " you can purchase a vehicle on finance should you choose to do so but this cant have an impact on the monthly payment we agree with you at the outset. Whatever we propose to your creditors at tge outset is the payment you need to maintain throughout. If for example your income increases and you wish to purchase vehicle with the extra money on HP then you can". This was an email communication. In the formal letter I received it specifies I muat declare bonuses etc and what I would refer to as a payment plan showing payments to be made over the term but certainly does not refer to change in circumstances etc
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12472 Posts

Posted - 26 February 2018 :  23:23:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iím not really sure what to say silly.

Youíve been told what youíve been told, and youíre reading what youíre reading, and youíre understanding it as you explain.

The wider picture however is that if the amount youíre deemed to be able to afford changes (upwards or downwards) then the amount youíre actually expected to pay will change.

As Kevin explained in his last reply, the way you interpret certain words can bestow different meanings. In this case, yes you can potentially take out car finance if it doesnít affect your capacity to make your payment. So that might mean you can replace your £200 per month finance arrangement with a new £200 per month finance arrangement. It doesnít mean you can get a £500 per month pay increase and take out a new £500 per month car finance deal to prevent you from contributing any more towards what you owe.

Itís all a balance. Making sure you can live reasonably and keep contributing towards your debts, while paying back as much as you can reasonably afford at the same time. A trustee in this respect is an intermediary, working to get a good return for your creditors while being mindful of your legitimate interests at the same time.

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silly
Frequent Contributor

33 Posts

Posted - 11 March 2018 :  20:12:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi TDA, have now read the article on gratuitous alienations. I was not advised/informed if after the transfer my assets were greater than my liabilities, which they were, this would not apply. Is there anything I can do about this now?
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12472 Posts

Posted - 12 March 2018 :  09:01:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi silly.

OK. So I think your point is that you wouldn't have agreed to these terms if you'd received more information before that agreement was made?

I think the issue here is that you voluntarily agreed to the terms of your trust deed and that the parties involved (you, your creditors, and your trustee) are now bound by them.

If you're asking whether they can be changed somehow I suspect that's unlikely. If you feel you've lost out as a result of advice (that you now question) then the usual complaint routes are of course open to you.

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Edited by - TDA (Debt Adviser) on 12 March 2018 09:01:38
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3549 Posts

Posted - 12 March 2018 :  14:59:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are correct, silly, that if you were solvent (ie assets greater than debts) at any time after the transfer of the ownership of the property then the transfer would not constitute a gratuitous alienation. If this was made clear to the trustee at the time then you may have grounds for complaint that you have been treated unfairly.

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silly
Frequent Contributor

33 Posts

Posted - 13 March 2018 :  11:55:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, thanks for your replies. TDA, exactly, if I had been advised and/or given all information I certainly would not have agreed as this has increased my term by one year. I would use the term voluntarily lightly given that when your world comes tumbling down you place your trust in those who are allegedly advising you. I was simply asked if I had transferred any assets and obviously I gave an honest reply, however this transfer took place 2 years before I became insolvent but I was made none the wiser in this regard. Therefore, Kevin, yes I agree I dont think this does constitute a gratuitous alienation. Whether this was made clear to the trustee at the time I really do not know, it certainly was not made clear to me by the adviser. As naive as it sounds one is really not aware of, nor made aware of in my opinion, of all implications or given all information and, in fact, it was not until I came upon this forum I am only now starting to learn about TDs. Like TDA says I too suspect its unlikely this can be changed however I shall give it all some thought before deciding my next course of action. Unfortunately I am starting to come to the conclusion there are advisers/trustees etc out there who are perhaps preying on the unfortunate - present company excluded of course.
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3549 Posts

Posted - 13 March 2018 :  12:52:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would suggest speaking to your trustee and making it clear that you do not accept that there has been a gratuitous alienation after all and that you accordingly request that they reduce the term back to the 4 years of contributions only.

You never know, they may surprise you by apologising for their oversight and agreeing to reduce the term as requested! I think they will probably first look for evidence of your solvency at the time from you though.

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silly
Frequent Contributor

33 Posts

Posted - 20 March 2018 :  12:13:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Kevin I shall be doing that. Evidence of my solvency would need to be supplied by my old bank, now a creditor of course, so I guess it would depend on whether they were willing to help with this as I have no paperwork regarding any old accounts. I would also need my other creditors to confirm I had no debts with them at the time in question. Time will tell
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3549 Posts

Posted - 20 March 2018 :  13:26:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your credit report might be of use regarding historic debt balances. And I think the bank has to provide statements if you ask, though they may charge you to do so

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silly
Frequent Contributor

33 Posts

Posted - 25 April 2018 :  18:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, just thought I would give you an update. Have spoken with adviser and I am now in process of getting documentary evidence to show my solvency at time. Fingers crossed
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