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 PPI claims after a Trust Deed Northern Rock
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WIKIKEE
Advanced Contributor

175 Posts

Posted - 14 December 2017 :  06:53:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi folks I've realised I haven't posted since 2014 when my Trust Deed was discharged, I apologise for "not staying in touch" but everything has been going great and after some harsh lessons learned I do feel like I'm a better person :-)

Something has cropped up which had me wondering who to turn to and this forum popped into my mind. I can see that my "issue" is not unique and hope that someone can suggest what I should do.

I was recently contacted by Northern Rock who advised that they were carrying out a review of PPI and if I wanted mine checked to fill in the form and send it back which I did. Received a letter yesterday saying yes it missold and redress would be due. HOWEVER, as I was in a Trust Deed I am no longer entitled to this and it would need to go the Trustee. Now by their own admission the Trust Deed is now discharged so how can they justify this. I don't want to get the extremely unhelpful Trustees involved so could I write back to them stating that if you read your own correspondence you will see that the Trustee is discharged and therefore any funds can be sent to me or should I contact the former Trustee and ask them to provide written confirmation of this? Really peeved about it as to be honest I didn't think I had PPI on anything so this was a nice bolt out of the blue that has just been snatched right back. I can see others have had similar experiences along these lines and wonder what best to do now to try and get the funds paid to me.

I'm hoping it's just a ploy to avoid paying but their letter does state that I have no legal right of claim as my assets were transferred. Fair enough but they are now back to being my own assets and not that of a Trustee.

I kind of think maybe I'm trying to have my cake and eat it but they shouldn't have included the PPI in the first place

Thanks again guys

amorphous
Advanced Contributor

74 Posts

Posted - 14 December 2017 :  09:43:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome to PPI hell!
I'm afraid you will need to wait about 9 months for the Supreme Court case judgement in Dooneen v Mond.
Nothing will change until then.
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12364 Posts

Posted - 14 December 2017 :  11:26:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi WIKIKEE and welcome back.

I'm not sure I agree with amorphous on this one, but it always good to get different opinions.

The first thing is to be entirely sure that your trustee has been discharged. They almost certainly will have been given the time involved, but if they haven't been this money is highly likely to go to them. Check the Register of Insolvencies online, if you cannot find yourself on there it's pretty good evidence that your trustee has been discharged (this happens after your own discharge).

It's quite often the case in the UK that personal insolvencies, even those that have been completed, will still capture PPI claims that arise from assets (the potential to claim) which existed during the time of that insolvency.

This is why Northern Rock will want to speak with your former trustee. If they pay you, but it turns out the funds should have gone to your former trustee and they cannot be recovered, Northern Rock might have to pay out all over again.

So it's reasonable (in my view) for them to contact a former trustee to see whether they have any interest in these funds that are due to be paid.

What will the trustee say? Well... for most trustees they're likely to tell Northern Rock that they have no interest in these funds. Once Northern Rock has a record of that, the funds may well go directly to you.

To complicate things, there is a single trustee who has escalated a case all of the way to the Supreme Court contending that trust deeds can be reopened to capture assets like this that should have been captured during the trust deed itself. If this is your former trustee, they might be a lot less likely to confirm to Northern Rock that they have no interest. The outcome, a stalemate where the trustee cannot claim the funds but Northern Rock will not pay you. The eventual outcome is then determined by what the Supreme Court decides next year.

The very fact that this case has reached the Supreme Court highlights that there are extremely good and entirely opposing legal views on what should happen with funds like these after trust deeds have ended. For example, why should your former creditors lose out because an asset wasn't realized during your trust deed? Should someone who hid an asset during their trust deed profit because there's no redress once discharge has occurred?

So it's all very contentious and confusing. But, on balance, I'd say it's pretty likely these funds will come to you fairly soon.

Just general thoughts these; not legal advice. You could get legal advice but given the answer isn't clear and resolved I'm not sure it would have much value.

Qualified Debt Adviser & Forum Administrator - Ask me anything about Trust Deeds    

Edited by - TDA (Debt Adviser) on 14 December 2017 11:28:20
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WIKIKEE
Advanced Contributor

175 Posts

Posted - 15 December 2017 :  07:16:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep all a bit of a confusing minefield going by what I've read on here :-( I think I will contact the Trustee and ask them if they can provide me with written confirmation that they no longer have an interest. I think they will do that however I'm wondering where I stand with Northern Rock in that they said I have no legal right to claim. If the Trustee provides that confirmation then should Northern Rock be paying to me or can they still say no you are not getting it we are keeping it? I'm on the one hand tempted to just forget it, but at the end of the day they shouldn't have included the PPI in the first place and it was them that asked me if I wanted a review, I didn't contact them.
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12364 Posts

Posted - 15 December 2017 :  11:34:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think once the trustee declares no interest (assuming they do) then Northern Rock will understand that you have every right to claim.

There have also been one or two creditors that have taken a position that they can set-off old PPI claims against the debts that were owed to them and included in the trust deed.

However, it seems unlikely that they're taking that route if they're indicating they were prepared to send the funds to your former trustee.

Qualified Debt Adviser & Forum Administrator - Ask me anything about Trust Deeds    
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Firewalker
Advanced Contributor

458 Posts

Posted - 18 December 2017 :  15:07:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi

I had a mortgage with Northern Rock many years ago. It was settled when I moved mortgage and it was never part of my Trust Deed.
My trust deed started August 2009 and discharged 3 years later. It is completely off my file.

I had thought of approaching NR to see about PPI. The Trustee contacted all other people involved in my trust deed at the time. there was no PPi to be reclaimed.

If I approach NR now and they agree there is a claim, does anyone know if it would be sent to me, or would I have the same problem - given that they were not involved in the Trust Deed and it is off my file?

Thanks in advance
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Voice of Reason
Advanced Contributor

101 Posts

Posted - 18 December 2017 :  15:23:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You would be in the same position Firewalker. It is not the fact of whether the debt existed at the date of your Trust Deed that is material. Rather that you had the right to claim for the PPI refund.

Please note that a number of Insolvency companies are not pursuing funds from closed Trust Deeds but given the above is a general point.

Edited by - Voice of Reason on 18 December 2017 15:24:06
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Firewalker
Advanced Contributor

458 Posts

Posted - 18 December 2017 :  16:01:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Voice of Reason. I suspected it may be but hoped not .
I was thinking if it was claimed and received during the trust deed it would have gone to the Trustee, so may still be paid to Trustee.
Ah well. May be worth trying - if I can remember the details anyway lol.
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WIKIKEE
Advanced Contributor

175 Posts

Posted - 03 January 2018 :  16:29:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Soooo I obtained a letter from my former Trustee stating that they have no interest in any redress, very helpful they were too :-) Sent it to NR who have replied today stating the complaint is closed and their position is unchanged. I do however have the right to refer the matter to the FCA, any further thoughts?
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12364 Posts

Posted - 03 January 2018 :  17:58:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think you may mean the Financial Ombudsman Service rather than the FCA?

FOS is free and easy to access and staffed with many really informed smart people.

I'm not sure you'd have anything to lose?

Qualified Debt Adviser & Forum Administrator - Ask me anything about Trust Deeds    
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3511 Posts

Posted - 03 January 2018 :  18:07:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Trust Deed Assistant. Not sure that Northern Rock's approach would stand up to scrutiny so worth a complaint to FOS instead.

Recommended Partner & Trust Deed Expert - Ask me for help setting up a Scottish Trust Deed    
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WIKIKEE
Advanced Contributor

175 Posts

Posted - 04 January 2018 :  15:28:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lost the plot completely! I inadvertently phoned the FCA initially they were however very interested and said it sounded like NR were "stalling". They took all of the details and said that they would investigate as well. The also advised me to phone the FOS which I did. They were less hopeful and stated that its a "grey" area. NR will have a legal department advising them on this and unfortunately if I want to take it further it may have to go to court. Well since I don't even know how much is involved I'm not going to be going anywhere near that far. They did however state that as they had more clout than consumers they would ask NR to provide a copy of their files and decision etc. and would advise me accordingly and also advise them if they thought they should actually be paying it. Watch this space.....
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Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3511 Posts

Posted - 04 January 2018 :  21:20:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pincer movement, i like it! Keep us posted please wikikee

Recommended Partner & Trust Deed Expert - Ask me for help setting up a Scottish Trust Deed    
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