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Debtnomore
Frequent Contributor

28 Posts

Posted - 28 April 2018 :  15:09:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good afternoon,

Sorry to add another PPI comment! As I’m sure you have answered these questions a hundred times and I think I know the answer anyway.

I was discharged from my Trust Deed almost 3 years ago. I decided to look into poi for RBS recently. They were one of my biggest debts within my trust deed- loan,overdraft, credit card. I take full responsibility for my debt, it was due to lots of poor choices and not helped by my husbands sudden redundancy. However I do firmly believe RBS were an irresponsible lender and they gave poor advice over many years. Anyway, I have been successful in 6 claims with RBS totalling almost £7000. I received the letters today and as others have found, this money will be offset against my debts- despite the fact that I have been discharged from my Trust Deed for almost 3 years. I don’t understand why my RBS accounts have not been closed and settled. I haven’t used my RBS accounts since August 2012.
I take it there is nothing I can do about this?

Kevin Mapstone
Trust Deed Expert



3579 Posts

Posted - 30 April 2018 :  08:33:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Debtnomore
RBS lost a case in the appeal court last year, which held that a PPI payment should not be offset against a debt where a PTD has been completed and a final distribution has been made (ie the trustee has also been discharged). That case rested on the decision in another case (Dooneen v Mond), which is still under appeal and is due to be heard by the Supreme Court later this year.

Presumably RBS are of the opinion that this appeal is likely to be successful and therefore the decision in their own case will no longer stand up to scrutiny.

I think you may just have to sit tight and see what happens - it's possible they may have to pay these funds out to you eventually.

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Debtnomore
Frequent Contributor

28 Posts

Posted - 30 April 2018 :  17:06:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for your reply, Kevin. I thought it was a case of wait and see. If I sign and return the forms to RBS is that me accepting that they are entitled to the ppi money and therefore in the future if the courts decide they are not acting correctly I still wouldn’t be entitled to it?
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12536 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2018 :  09:00:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Debtnomore.

I'm afraid I don't think we can answer this question in a way that you can rely on.

This is partly because we don't know exactly what's on the paperwork that you have received, but also because it's essentially a legal question (the nature of any contract created if you sign the documents) and we're neither legally trained nor appropriately regulated to do so.

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Luke4630
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2018 :  23:11:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rbs are in the wrong . there is nothing to offset .as after a trust deed is finished there is no debts. I've just had a cheque from Clydesdale and they have quoted with an apology saying we should not have applied right of set off as your insolvency debt had been extinguished. futher to my complaints to rbs they are still of setting my money in the meantime pending court case in June . utter rubbish what rbs are pulling with this right to offset rule . My lawyer said keep hold off any offers and don't sign as they are restructuring there offer lettrrs . Don't fall into that trap

Colin luke
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Luke4630
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2018 :  23:25:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rbs are in the wrong . there is nothing to offset .as after a trust deed is finished there is no debts. I've just had a cheque from Clydesdale and they have quoted with an apology saying we should not have applied right of set off as your insolvency debt had been extinguished. futher to my complaints to rbs they are still of setting my money in the meantime pending court case in June . utter rubbish what rbs are pulling with this right to offset rule . My lawyer said keep hold off any offers and don't sign as they are restructuring there offer lettrrs . Don't fall into that trap

Colin luke
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12536 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2018 :  09:15:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Luke4630.

To be fair, you/we don't know whether they're right or wrong.

They clearly have an arguable case otherwise the legal activity here wouldn't have gone on for so long.

They've also clearly had legal advice that their case is arguable and winnable.

That doesn't mean they'll win of course - but to state with certainty that they're in the wrong is premature.

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Sarah Houston
Trust Deed Expert



38 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2018 :  12:39:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hopefully the case judgement will resolve many of these unanswered ppi issues.

Sarah is no longer posting in the Trust-Deed.co.uk forum.
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Luke4630
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2018 :  11:42:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi thanks for your reply . Scottish trust deed law . Small print states all debt is extinguished . Rbs sign up to the trust deed and its conditions .letter from Clydesdale has just proved my argument . I have offers for £16000 due to me . Sorry bit annoyed

Colin luke
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Luke4630
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2018 :  11:53:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi thanks for your reply . Scottish trust deed law . Small print states all debt is extinguished . Rbs sign up to the trust deed and its conditions .letter from Clydesdale has just proved my argument . I have offers for £16000 due to me . Sorry bit annoyed

Colin luke
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12536 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2018 :  12:25:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's not quite right Luke4630.

The letter from Clydesdale doesn't prove your argument or the law. It's just their position.

RBS has a different position which according to our article from a few years ago goes (or went) a bit like this:

1- The Scottish equivalent of “set-off” rights is known as “balancing accounts in bankruptcy”. In the scenario we’re considering here, a protected trust deed is viewed as being equivalent to bankruptcy.

2 - A “person” with a claim against an insolvent estate (a claim which arose prior to bankruptcy) can keep any money owed to the insolvent estate.

3 - They consider that any goodwill payment that they now offer for PPI arose pre-insolvency. This is because the date when their claimant contends they became entitled to be compensated or refunded was when the original mis-selling took place.

4 - Reciprocal obligations existed when the trust deed was signed. Any detriment or loss to the customer can be quantified in monetary terms at this date.

So maybe your rights are extinguished as well as theirs?

I don't know. You don't know. The banks don't know. We'll hear from the Court in due course!

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Debtnomore
Frequent Contributor

28 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2018 :  19:44:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven’t returned the forms as yet. Has a date been set for the appeal?
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Luke4630
Contributor

11 Posts

Posted - 15 May 2018 :  22:05:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Small up date cheque from rbs . For £921 for package bank account with them . Unbelievable they can pay out on that but not on my other ppi claims . I've been fighting for my money for 4 years . Money was sent from a different department but still has rbs on letter head . One hand doesn't know what the other is doing

Colin luke
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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12536 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2018 :  08:50:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Luke4630.

We've actually heard this before.

I suspect the whole packaged account fees reclaiming is on such an enormously smaller scale than PPI that less effort has gone into mitigating claims costs.

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TDA (Debt Adviser)
Trust Deed Expert



12536 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2018 :  08:51:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Debtnomore.

I think someone did recently remember the date, but I can't recall it now. Later this summer is in my mind (Kevin mentions later this year in his reply above).

This is actually for a different case but the two have apparently become linked now.

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Bacardibill
Contributor

8 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2018 :  13:20:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dooneen v Mond is due to be heard in the Supreme Court 3rd July 2018
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